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[00:00:07] Scott Benton: Hey everyone, Scott Benton here. I’m the host of the Classroom 2 Courtroom podcast. How are you? We are here to help you easily transition from law school, as a law student into your professional career as a bonafide attorney, after you pass the bar, of course. And we’re here to even make the practice of law fun.
[00:00:24] Scott Benton: Now today, we’re going to answer the question of, how do you enforce a judgment if the asset is in another state? So this is going to be a little bit of a thought experiment and a hypothetical situation where we’re going to imagine that you have a client who is a beneficiary of a trust, and where the trustee had already fleeced the trust.
[00:00:48] Scott Benton: Maybe they sold a house or an investment property or some other asset, could be cash, and they took that money off to another state. We’ll pick Arizona. And in Arizona, the trustee bought a [00:01:00] house that they’re now living in. So you’re in California, and they’re in Arizona.
[00:01:04] Scott Benton: Now here, you’ve already won the judgment. And now, you and your client are walking out of the courthouse. Your client has a bright and shiny piece of paper in their hand that says right there in black and white that the judgment is in their favor and that they’re entitled to a distribution of the asset, that is now essentially located all the way in Arizona, and you’re in California.
[00:01:29] Scott Benton: So, that property is going to essentially have to be put back in the trust, and it’s likely going to need to be sold. In order to do that, and it can go back in the trust, but it’ll need to be sold so that the equal distributions can be made from that sale that’s going to go to the beneficiary.
[00:01:48] Scott Benton: So, there’s really a lot of complexities involved and things that are going to need to take place. And it’s probably going to take a few months really before the dust settles and everyone receives their fair share of the [00:02:00] distributions. So the question is, can you just go out to Arizona and demand that the house gets put back into the trust because you have your order that’s signed by a judge in California? After all, you have the signed judgment. Your client has that valuable piece of information in their hands. Isn’t that enough?
[00:02:19] Scott Benton: Actually, it’s not enough. Because the trustee in the house is out of state from where the trust was formed, which is California. They were hoping by going to Arizona that you wouldn’t be able to reach across state lines and return their new house back into the trust. The reason that you don’t have any enforcement abilities in Arizona, it’s because you are not licensed as an attorney to practice law in Arizona, in this hypothetical, means your client is going to have to hire another attorney who is licensed to practice law in Arizona, and who is going to be able to enforce that judgment that’s given to you by a judge in California, in a California courtroom.
[00:02:59] Scott Benton: [00:03:00] Now, normally, that probably wouldn’t be much of a problem. But in this hypothetical, in this story that we’re putting together, the client really didn’t know anything about attorney licenses or really about the abilities of an attorney that is based on the state that they’re licensed in details and information like that.
[00:03:19] Scott Benton: The client’s, they’re not going to understand those, let’s call them nuances or those details about the world of law, and attorneys, and courtrooms, and jurisdictions, and different states that most clients aren’t going to. Now sometimes, you’re going to work with an attorney or somebody that maybe works at a law firm and understands these ideas.
[00:03:40] Scott Benton: But for the most part, that is just not going to be the case. It’s just not going to be understood by the majority of clients that you probably work with. When this gets explained right after the judgment, the client thinks they just won, but then they realize that you can’t do anything in Arizona. They’re likely going to get a little bit angry about it. And they’re going to [00:04:00] say, what do you mean I have to hire another attorney? Isn’t that what I hired you to do? That’s just going to be their assumption. So, it’s really a fair question for them to ask. Because the problem is once you’ve discovered the asset, and in this case it was a house, and in this case it was outside of California and located in Arizona, that’s when you wanted to have the conversation with the client, about hiring an additional attorney in Arizona. So that before the judgment is made, you can really ask that attorney, what’s going to be needed to enforce the judgment, assuming that you’re going to prevail in court, so that you can take that information into the case with you, and maybe have the judgment affected by it, as well.
[00:04:42] Scott Benton: But you want to have this conversation with the client, especially right up front when you first know that there’s going to be some kind of geographical issue that’s involved. Now, even if this provision is written in the CSA that you have the client sign, you still want to make sure that [00:05:00] they’re not forgetting that little paragraph or that detail, and that they clearly understand why you as their attorney in California can’t do anything in Arizona, yourself. And why there’s going to be a need to locate a second attorney that’s going to be able to help you finalize the enforcement of that judgment in Arizona, when it finally comes in from the California courtroom.
[00:05:25] Scott Benton: So the bottom line is that the client is going to have to pay for two attorneys in this case no matter what because of the two states that are involved in this particular case, California and Arizona. And it’s presented complications that really necessitate a more slightly, maybe more uncommon legal tactic.
[00:05:44] Scott Benton: You as an attorney in California, you’re not going to be able to practice in Arizona. And chances are, if the client finds out that piece of information after they’ve won their case, expecting to get their money or property or ownership or whatever it is right away, and then suddenly, there’s this other [00:06:00] roadblock that they’ve learned about, that there’s nothing you can do for them in another state, they’re probably going to get pretty angry, which is really going to erode the trust that you’ve carefully built with your client. Because I know that’s what you’re doing. I know that you’re building relationships.
[00:06:13] Scott Benton: We have a saying here, part of our company values is, build relationships and all else will follow. And that’s really true. And I know if you’re listening to this Classroom 2 Courtroom podcast series, this is building relationships with your clients. It’s something that we talk about a lot. There’s a book by Dale Carnegie called How to Win Friends & Influence People, which you should read if you haven’t read it. And if you have read it, you should read it again, because it’s so good. And you want to use all those tools in that book because they’re going to really help you build a very strong relationship with your client.
[00:06:41] Scott Benton: So anyway, you want to make sure that you’re talking to your client frequently about this particular situation, about hiring a second attorney in Arizona and another state, wherever that asset is. And that you want to make sure that you get ahead of the game. So you want to [00:07:00] be able to contact an attorney who’s going to be able to navigate this case on another side of a border, right away, even before you’ve won the judgment, ideally.
[00:07:09] Scott Benton: Now, the client might, by the way, get upset anyway. After all, who wants to pay a bunch of money to a law firm because it’s already a substantial amount that they’ve paid you to represent them, and now they’ve got to turn around and pay another attorney in another state?
[00:07:26] Scott Benton: So it’s reasonable to assume that a client is going to react in a way that is a little angry in spite of what they already know what to expect. Because cases like this, they can get really volatile. Cases like this involve money, and family members, and families breaking apart, and it can really be a mess.
[00:07:44] Scott Benton: So a lot of times, there’s already a foundation of hostilities that everyone’s standing on when they’re going into a courtroom situation where legal decisions are being made. And so, you want to really understand that tempers can [00:08:00] run pretty high when it comes to decisions. And so, learning that there’s this whole extra step for the client, this is a climate for people, whether they understand all this or not, as far as they’re going to potentially reach their boiling point. So, they may just need to blow off a little steam, especially what can sometimes be a fairly stressful court hearing. Hopefully not. It can be, and you want to be ready for that, just in case that’s what’s gonna happen.
[00:08:23] Scott Benton: So I hope this was a helpful thought experiment, and that it provided a little bit of context and insight into what to look out for whenever there’s more than just your home state involved in a case. There’s other states. And chances are, this is going to come up from time to time, where their assets that are located outside of California are located outside of the state that you work in, and that you’re licensed in. It might mean hiring outside attorneys that you’re going to need to really carefully explain to your client.
[00:08:51] Scott Benton: You want to sit down with them and make sure that they understand that step because you don’t want them to be blindsided. You don’t even want them to [00:09:00] feel blindsided. At the end of the case, when this new piece of information becomes clear to them and something that now they must grapple with, it can’t just be a hypothetical. It really needs to be concrete, real world situation that the client understands that they’re in. You want to make sure that you’re staying ahead of situations like that, because they can get away from you. And then suddenly, at the end of the case, once they have their judgment in hand, their piece of paper, then that other shoe will drop and you really want to make sure, that doesn’t happen.
[00:09:32] Scott Benton: You want to make sure that the client knows what’s coming down the road and that if it’s a case like this where you have to hire another attorney in another state, that they’re well aware, that’s gonna be the next step.
[00:09:43] Scott Benton: So I’m Scott Benton. I’m the host of the Classroom 2 Courtroom podcast. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. I hope that this and other episodes are valuable contributors towards your ability to build your career as an attorney right out of law school after you’ve passed the bar. And that you’re going into your first [00:10:00] legal job with a significant head start in knowing exactly how to practice law, because practicing law is not something that law school teaches you.
[00:10:08] Scott Benton: Law school is teaching you how to graduate law school. The bar is teaching you how to pass the bar. And somewhere along the line, you need to learn how to practice law as an attorney. And that’s why this particular podcast was developed, to provide that information for you.
[00:10:23] Scott Benton: So if this is a podcast that you’re enjoying and you’re finding the information in it valuable, and you’d like to receive a notification every time we put out a new episode, you can go to our website.
[00:10:34] Scott Benton: Our website is Classroom2Courtroom.com. You can leave us your contact information there. And whenever we put out a new episode, you’ll get a notification, which I’m sure will be helpful for you. And if this is information that’s helpful and valuable to you, don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe, so you can stay on top of all of our newest episodes. And until next time, we hope you’ll join us in making the world a better place, one client at a time. Thank you so much.
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