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Scott Benton: Hey everyone, it’s Scott Benton. I am your host on the Classroom2Courtroom podcast. How are you? This is a podcast where we are transitioning you from law student to law professional going from the classroom to the courtroom. And we’re going to make that transition as easy as possible for you and show you that the practice of law is actually fun and entertaining as it should be.
You can make it dark and gloomy if you want but we think that you would probably want to work in a much more fun environment. And hopefully this podcast will help you achieve that with the tools that we are going to provide. And today we’re going to ask the question of, should you use legal words when you are talking to your clients?
Should you use legal words when you’re talking to your clients?
Scott Benton: Now, we know if you’re a brand new lawyer or just about to be a brand new lawyer, maybe [00:01:00] you’re studying for the bar. You have just spent probably a total of three years in law school. Then you studied for the bar and then you took the bar.
Maybe you passed the first time, maybe you didn’t but you’ve basically been in this learning space for about four years now. And that’s a lot of time that you have spent in and around this legal language. So, each field has what’s called, a term of art or terms of art and law is no exception. As you probably are well aware, it’s almost like you’ve spent four years in an intensive foreign language class, learning all this new vocabulary, learning all of these new words and you’ve been eager to use all of these words as much as you possibly can.
So you’ve probably been talking to your friends in law school and professors and other lawyers and every time you talk to them, there’s this sort of legal language that begins to come out. And [00:02:00] as you can finally get to a point where you can use this legalese, let’s call it the language of law, that you can use this new language in a coherent sentence, you’re going to start to get excited about that. And you’re going to start to want to use this language as much as possible. And really when you’re talking about law, when there’s two professionals talking to each other, two lawyers, then it’s just an easy shortcut that you have developed to talk about legal concepts and legal precedences and just legal strategies.
It’s easier to use these terms of art. Every discipline has its own unique set of words and vocabulary that it uses law has its own. And so you’re going to use this so much and over such a long period of time for years, really, just in practice that probably what’s going to start to happen is, that you’re going to begin to dream in legalese. Because that’s what happens a hundred percent of the time when you’re learning a new language.
You go to sleep at [00:03:00] night and the characters in your dreams are all speaking this language. So for you, as an attorney, essentially what is a big foreign language class? You probably noticed that at night when you go to sleep, that the characters in your dreams are all speaking legalese. And that’s just something that your brain does, because your brain starts to get excited about this new information that you’re bringing into it. These new concepts that it’s learning, you see your brain starts growing dendrites and it actually grows and in that growth, your brain starts to see everything in the world through this lens of the legal language or legalese. It’s like that red sports car concept, when you set your intention on something that you desire.
Let’s say, it’s a red sports car. Then wherever you go, you’re going to see nothing but red sports cars out there. And when it comes to the language of law and legalese, it’s going to be the same idea. You’re going to see legal language, so to speak, concepts everywhere you [00:04:00] go. Your brain is going to want to be talking to you in this foreign language, the foreign language of law school or the foreign language of law.
So now after four years, you’ve graduated law school, you’ve passed the bar, you’ve looked around for a job, you’ve been made an offer, you accepted an offer, you started your first day at a law firm. You’ve walked in there and now you’re going to begin working with clients. You’ve just spent, remember, four years in this immersive foreign language class called law school, okay? But now you have transitioned again from the classroom to the courtroom, so to speak. You are now a working legal professional and you’re going to start working with clients, who are going to come and see you. Or maybe it’s their potential clients, maybe they’re coming to you for an initial consultation, for instance.
And you have all of this legal language and jargon and words and phrases and ideas that are in your head. Sometimes it’s in Latin, it’s in a different language entirely. And the [00:05:00] question that you’re going to have to answer for you when you sit down on that first day with a new client or a new initial consultation is, Are you going to use these legal words in your conversations with the clients that you’re now dealing with or potential clients?
Are you going to use this vast legal vocabulary that you now have in your head? You speak this language, are you going to use those words? Now, the answer should be a resounding, no way. No way are you going to use all that legal jargon. There are going to be cases, for instance, where you get a client who is an attorney, that’s true. And in that case, then you might want to speak to each other in legalese, in the language of law, because you both understand it. There will be clarity because, you speak that same foreign language and nothing is going to be missed. But, it turns out, that population wise, lawyers [00:06:00] are a very, very small breed out there.
There aren’t many of them. So, most of your clients are probably going to be non lawyers. Of course, if someone shows up and they are a lawyer, well then you have that ability to sort of speak in that legal language, in that legalese style that you probably would not use with anybody else, especially non lawyers to do, is The way that you wanna do is you wanna simplify that language as much as possible. You wanna eliminate most of that legalese, because it only produces confusion. Your clients, your potential clients, they’re not going to really be able to follow you or follow what you’re saying. And remember, you’re trying to instill confidence in your ability to achieve their legal goals and that confidence needs to be transferred from those abilities that you have to accomplish their goals to your client. So that, you’re, building a strong relationship with them and that they’re going to continue to want to work with you and continue to pay for your [00:07:00] legal services up unto the point where you have completed their legal objectives and really even beyond. If you start throwing a bunch of legal jargon at them and you’re using all these fancy concepts and legal terms and you’re speaking a foreign language to them. There’s just no way they’re going to be able to keep up with you and they’re going to get confused and they’re going to get frustrated and they’re just simply not going to want to work with you anymore.
So, there is a difference in the way that you speak to other attorneys or people in the legal community and the way that you talk to clients. There’s a great bumper sticker that I like, it cracks me up every time I see it. I don’t see it very often. But it’s two words on this bumper sticker. It’s, eschew obfuscation. Which, if you don’t know what that means, a lot of people don’t. It’s, avoid confusion and that bumper sticker might be a really good bumper sticker idea to keep in mind every time you walk into that conference room to meet with a potential client or one of [00:08:00] your clients that you’re already working with.
You want to eschew obfuscation as much as you possibly can. Remember, that when you go to law school, you have this advanced degree. Your ability to read and comprehend is at a pretty high level, which is significant. Now, most Americans, most people probably, but we’ll stick to Americans. Most Americans read at a 7th to 8th grade level, okay? And that’s something you need to know. Now, all news publishers, most sort of magazine publishers, news publishers, they know this. So, if you pick up a copy, for instance, of USA Today, you’re gonna see, that’s written largely at a 7th or 8th grade level. It’s very simple language, they eschew obfuscation the publications know that. Why? Why do they do that? Because they know that if a publication, whether it’s actually on printed paper, which [00:09:00] do they even do that anymore? If it’s online, they know that style of language is going to capture more eyeballs, right?
And that’s their whole business, they’re selling advertising, they want to capture eyeballs. If they write in a way that’s using, let’s call them, a lot of $20 words, big words, like eschew obfuscation. The chances are, their reading base just simply isn’t going to understand what the newspaper is talking about because, the majority of people largely read at a 7th or 8th grade level. And you can look it up on Google. Just type, what is the reading comprehension level that most people read at in America? And it’s going to say, 7th or 8th grade. So, when it comes to your conversations with your clients Again, you don’t want to use a very high level of dialogue, meaning, you don’t want to speak in that legalese.
You want to try and eliminate those words as much as possible, so that you can create understanding between, you and your client. It’s very important that they can follow you, [00:10:00] they can understand you, it builds rapport between you and your client, and it makes it easy for them to continue to work with you.
People who hire you, you want to make it easy for them. That’s largely, why they’re hiring you in the first place, because they have problems that they are unable to solve. They’re coming to you for your expertise and you’re selling your time and your expertise. That’s what they’re paying for and they expect you to make something that’s very complicated for them much easier. And so, keep in mind that your interactions with them need to be at that kind of explainable level. As an example, this is a real easy one, that you are going to subpoena records from a institutional business.
What does that even mean? What’s a subpoena? What’s an institutional business? I don’t know what that means. You’re using some $20 words there. If I’m reading at a 7th or 8th grade level, even the [00:11:00] word subpoena throws me, I mean, I know what a subpoena is just from television shows. But I don’t really know what a subpoena is and a lot of times, when people are talking to an attorney, it’s now, it’s real world. They’re not just sitting on their couch passively watching a television show that’s designed to use these words but in a way that can be a lot more understandable.
And also it doesn’t really matter. They have no skin in the game they have no stakes, because it’s a TV program. But now when they’re sitting in front of you, they actually have skin in the game. So, when you’re using words like subpoena and institutional business, that’s just going to scare them and confuse them and it’s going to be overwhelming for them. So, you need to say that differently, you need to eliminate all of the legalese, all of the language of the law, so to speak. And you want to say something like, you’re going to request account statements from the bank. You want to make it really simple. So you want to bring that in as much as possible and clarify or simplify.
You want to make it [00:12:00] very easy for your client to understand you as much as possible. And the reason you want to do that is because, it’s directly going to translate into ongoing revenue for you. If you’re going to confuse your client, they’re just not going to want to continue to work with you. Think about your own experience. I don’t know, with doctors, maybe you’ve hired a lawyer but like with doctors or other people that you go to, I’m trying to think of who else you might go to. Even any kind of expert, even a tailor, even a car mechanic. When they start to say things that you don’t understand and there’s another car mechanic that explains a complex engine situation to you. That now you can sort of understand so much so, that you can go to your own friends or your own family and explain it to them in simplified terms, you’re going to go back to that person over and over again.
And that’s the way it is in the legal community as well. Your clients are going to go to you if they understand you. So, even though you’ve spent three and four years learning this foreign language called, [00:13:00] legalese. You got to refrain from using that unless you’re talking to other attorneys or you’re talking to maybe other colleagues who work at your firm. Then that’s okay because, there’s this implied agreement that you both speak the same language and you understand the words and you understand the concepts. Even there sometimes, there’s a lot of ambiguity when it comes to certain legal concepts. So, you want to make sure that even among people that speak the language, that there is an understanding of, how these words, concepts, ideas are being used at the time and in the context of those sentences that you’re speaking them in.
But, when it comes to clients, it comes down to this. It’s very simple, it’s either they understand you or they don’t understand you. And if they understand you, they’re going to continue to engage your legal services. If they can’t understand you, chances are, they’re going to stop paying you, they’re going to find another attorney, they’re not going to want to work with you. Because it’s too hard for them to follow along with what you’re saying. So, in all of your communications, whether it’s face to face, it’s on the telephone or it’s in [00:14:00] an email, you want to make sure that you are simplifying, simplifying, simplifying, and always remember to eschew obfuscation.
So I hope that’s been helpful. I’m Scott Benton, your host on the Classroom2Courtroom podcast. If this is a podcast that you’re enjoying and you’d like to receive alerts every time we put out new material, you can go to our website. Our website is ClassRoom2CourtRoom.com. That’s classroom, the number two, courtroom.com. There you can put in your name and your email address and whenever we are going to publish a new episode of a Classroom2Courtroom podcast. We will send you out an alert that you will receive and you will know that there’s new material for you to enjoy and consume. And if you do like this podcast, don’t forget to share, like and subscribe. And we hope you’ll join us on our next episode of the Classroom2Courtroom podcast.
Until then, we hope you’ll join us in making the world a better place, one client at a time. Thank you so much and take care.
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